Cherokee Casino - West Siloam Springs

Better casino to go to- Seminole Hard Rock in tampa or Harrahs Cherokee in Tenn??

I'm in Savannah GA and with a long weekend coming up I'd like to get out to a casino and play some live games. With that said the closest I can find are the two in the title- Seminole/Harrahs. Could anybody who's been to one or both give me a recommendation? I just want some soft 1/2 action, I haven't played live in a while.
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https://preview.redd.it/1m0ch6zr86661.jpg?width=259&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43a4daa792544a2ce9f164e4439e3d47db00a7a2
submitted by Musicall1023 to u/Musicall1023 [link] [comments]

Non-Nevada casino minimums (COVID edition) part 5

If you are reporting about a casino, could you please try to include the following:
The more information we have, the better off we will be.
We all know that tables can change rapidly. I saw a table go from 25 to 15 to 100 at the Flamingo in the course of a few hours. I'll try to keep the mins what is reported the most and add other information in the comments like "found this table at $5 on graveyard shift" so people konw that isn't the norm
These tables can be a pain to maintain, so please provide as much information as possible. An informed roller is a beter roller.
OtherNV Casnio WeekDay Min WeekNight Min WeekendMin WeeknightMin MaxOdds Field Pay Sidebet Dividers/Per Side Last Update Comments
Wind Creek (Wetumpka, AL) 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 4 to a table 7/31
Sycuan (San Diego, CA) 10 10 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Barona (So Cal) 10 15 10 10-15 5X 2 Dub 3 Trip Fire/Sharpshooter 2 per side 10/2 dealers managing bets for players. ($10 at times) - Digital table . $10, double the field with Hot Shooter Bet.
Harrahs (So Cal) 15-25 15-25 15-50 15-50 Unknown Unknown Unknown No 7/31
Ameristar (Black Hawk, CO) 10 10 15 15 10X Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/12 Colorado law, max bet $100
Golden Gates (Black Hawk, CO) 10 10 10 10 20X Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/12 Colorado law, max bet $100
Monarch (Black Hawk, CO) 10 10 15 15 10X Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/12 Colorado law, max bet $100
Saratoga (Black Hawk, CO) 10 10 10 10 20X Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/12 Colorado law, max bet $100
The Lodge (Black Hawk, CO) 10 10 10 10 10X Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/12 Colorado law, max bet $100
Foxwoods (CT) 10 10 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 4/side 8/22
Mohegan (CT) 15-25 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Harrington (DE) 15 15-25 25 25 10X Unknown Firebet 2/side 10/1
Rivers (Chicago, IL) 15 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 8/2
Blue Chip (Michigan City, IN) 5 10 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown ATS Unknown 5 minimum prop bets, 5 min ATS bet.
Caesars Southern IN 10 15 15 25 Unknown ATS & Fire Unknown Unknown 11/15
French Lick Resort (French Lick, IN) 15 15 25 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 8/5 Tables open at 11am and close at 3AM.
Harrah's Hooiser Park (Anderson, IN) 10 10 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Hollywood Larenceburg (Larenceburg, IN) 10 10 Unknown Unknown Sharp/Lucky Shooter Unknown Unknown 4/side 11/15
Indiana Grand (IN) 10 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown No
Hollywood casino Lawrenceburg (IN) 10-15 10 -15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Rivers (Chcago, IL) 10 15
Belle (Baton Rogue, LA) 5 10 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown one half sized table sometimes they open the big one. $5 small table and $10 big late at night
Hollywood (Baton Rogue, LA) 5 10 Unknown 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown 7/24
L’auberge (Baton Rogue,LA) 15 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown No 8/2
L’auberge (Lake Charles,LA) 15 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown No 8/2
El Dorado (Shreveport, LA) 10 10 10 10 100X Unknown Unknown Unknown 8/17
Horseshoe (Shreveport, LA) 15 15 15 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 8/17
Margaritaville (Shreveport, LA) 15 15 15 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 8/17
Sams Town (Shreveport, LA) 10 10 10 10 20X Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/10
Ocean Downs (MD) 10 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 8/17
Maryland Live (MD) 25 50 50 100 Unknown Unknown Unknown Yes, 4 per side 9/6 Electronic craps 15 min
MGM @ National Harbor 50-100 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Yes No bubble craps or low roller options.
Firekeepers (Battle Creek, MI) 10 15+ 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown No 8/17 $3 Bubble Craps.
Four Winds Casino (New Buffalo, MI) 15 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Digital craps table 5$ min
Gun Lake (Wayland, MI) 10 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown No No
MGM Grand Detroit (Detroit, MI) 15 25 unknown unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Yes
Turtle Creek (Traverse City, MI) 5 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Soaring Eagle (Mt Pleasant, MI) 10 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Yes, 5 per side
Hollywood Casino, Maryland Heights (St Louis) MO 15 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 4 per side
River City (St. Louis, MS) 20 20 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 4 players per side You have to have at least a $20 bet for every throw to "hold your spot"
Beau Rivage (Biloxi, MS) 25 25 25 25 unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/18 3 tables
Boomtown (Biloxi, MS) 10 10 Unknown 15 10X Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/10 1 table
Hard Rock (Biloxi, MS) 25 25 25 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Updated 9/4
IP (Biloxi, MS) 25 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Scarlett Pearl (Biloxi, MS) 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown No
The Palace Biloxi, MS) 10 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Golden Spike (Tunica, MS) 10 15 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/27
Horseshoe (Tunica, MS) 10 15 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/27
Treasure Bay (Biloxi, MS) 10 10 10 10 10X Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/10
Harrah’s Cherokee & Murphy 15 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown No Unknown
Harrahs River Valley (Murphy, NC) 25 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Ballys (AC, NJ) 10 15 10 10-25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Yes 9/22
Caesars (AC, NJ) 15 15 Unknown 15-25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 7/29
Harrahs (AC, NJ) 15 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 7/29
Hard Rock (AC, NJ 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 7/29
Resorts (AC, NJ) 15 25 Unknown 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Yes 7/29
Ocean (AC, NJ) 10 15 10 15-25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Yes, 4 per side 9/4
Buffalo Creek (NY) 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Seneca Niagra (NY) 10 15 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown No 8/22
Jack/Harrah's (Cincinnati, OH) 25 25 25 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Cocktaw (Durant, OK) 10 Unknown 10 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 8/22
Winstar World Casino (Thackerville, OK) 5 5 Unknown Unknown 3x/4x/5x Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/10
Hollywood (Columbus, OH) 10-15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Hollywood (Grantville, PA) 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Harrah's Philly (PA) Unknown Unknown 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 8/10
Meadows (PA) 10 10 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 9/4
Mohegan Sun (PA) Unknown Unknown 25-50 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 8/3
Rivers Casino Philly (Philadelphia, PA) Unknown 15-25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Double field Unknown Unknown 10/9
Seneca Allegheny (PA) 5 5 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 9/4
Windcreek (PA) 10 10 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown
Mount airy (Scotrun, PA) 10 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 10/2
Valley Forge (PA) Unknown 10 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 9/12
Parx (Bensalem, PA) 15 25 15 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Yes, 3 per side 8/22
Mardi Gras (Nitro, WV) Unknown Unknown 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 7/28 Usually open on weekends
Part 1. It's getting buried so I figured we would make a new one.
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
submitted by necrochaos to Craps [link] [comments]

Dev Diary 11: Welcome to Texas and Oklahoma

Dev Diary 11: Welcome to Texas and Oklahoma
Howdy there partners, and welcome to the Wasteland’s finest rodeo! Down here in Texas and good old Oklahoma, things work differently from the rest of the Wasteland. Oh yes, you see here we’re a fine folk, a refined folk, the kind of people who greet you with smiles and a face-full of buckshot if you even think about whipping out your tire iron. Yes, life here is simple, rustic, and downright apocalyptic...
The region in all its glory!

That’s right Wastelanders, it’s time for another exciting dev diary! Today, we’re focusing on just some of the map changes and additions brought to you by the team. In the coming weeks and months, we’ll reveal more about the factions you see before you, more of our other map changes, and give you some tasty insight into the way things work past the Legion’s border.To begin with though, why don’t we delve deep into the twisted guts of the map itself, and pull back the veil on this beautiful view you’d love to call home.
Aren't provinces beautiful?
Every map expansion begins here, the province map. For this update, a big focus for me was returning to my roots when it came to province design. More small, organic provinces, built up into many states that a great number of nations can occupy. The new playable region brought forth in 3.0 feels as dense and lively as the West Coast, without having nearly as many provinces dotted along its shoreline.
There’s a vast variety of terrain in 3.0, from jungle, to marsh, to plains, urban, and deserts. 3.0 feels and plays like a small microcosm of the larger map, an area rich with lore from a game many people don’t even know about.Before we talk about that, though, let’s take a look at the states.
Dare you count all these states?
If you took the arduous time to count all of that before reading, let’s see if you were right! That’s 96 new states. Oh yes my friends, that’s right, your faithful friend here didn’t stutter now, did I? We’ve got 96 new states for you to control, conquer, and explore in 3.0: and they’re full of interesting characters.Why don’t we get on to that, actually?
In 3.0, we’re representing the lore of the often hated and forgotten Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel, as well as it’s cancelled sequel; Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel 2. Many of you may have never heard about these games, let alone played the first, so it’s time for a little history lesson.
After the defeat of Unity, the super mutant army of the Master fractured into many pieces. Two leaders arose from the ashes, and they led large hordes of mutants out of California to greener pastures for plunder and glory. The important one is Attis, who led his new troops to Texas, in an attempt to uncover the secrets of FEV.
A brotherhood detachment had already left to face off against the first mutant general, and with Attis’ departure, another group inside the Western Brotherhood wanted to chase them down. The Council of Elders said no, fearing another disaster like that which had happened to the first group, but ultimately a splinter faction formed.
It was led by none other than High Elder Rhombus, and he led a group of scribes and paladins to chase down the largest super mutant army in the West, forming what would later be known as the “Texas Expedition.”Settling into the heartland of Texas, this new offshoot developed themselves, recruiting from the local population. They ran them through a training course utilising hologram technology, turning them into initiates. One of these initiates became the protagonist of Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel, and went on a large journey, tracking Attis all the way to his target destination: the Secret Vault.
The Secret Vault was the holy grail for Attis, a place where the secrets of FEV were laid bare, and the secret headquarters of Vault-Tec. Built under the nose of the US, it was the control centre of all Vault-Tec infrastructure, designed to facilitate what Vault-Tec promised thousands of Americans: a safe life underground. The Vault was equipped with state of the art facilities to conduct unethical experiments, and was staffed by unique robots unlike anything the player had ever seen before, or since.
Attis would eventually turn himself into a true abomination, an amalgamation of flesh and FEV, taking after the Master’s image in a final face-off against the protagonist.
Thus ended Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel 1. We must now go more than a hundred years into the future, a mere decade before OWB starts. The Brotherhood have consolidated their power, but outside threats are pressuring their organisation. Attis Army has split into two halves, led by two mutants respectively. Shale, a die-hard mutant supremacist who wants to reform the Army, and Keats; a super mutant who wishes to create a place in which super mutants and humans live and work together in harmony, free from oppression.
But underneath the surface, a great plot is brewing. Reese, a former member of the Cyphers, a group who despise technology in all its forms, has acquired a broken GECK. This GECK has the ability to mutate anything it touches, twisting the world around it into a mockery of life itself. It is the Corrupted GECK, and Reese has big plans for it. He seeks to destroy the Texan Brotherhood, and plunge the region into chaos.
The protagonist of the cancelled Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel 2 went across Texas, on the hunt for many things, but eventually Reese himself. They entered Lone Star, where they found evidence of his tampering, and scouts of the Legion. They travelled throughout Brotherhood territory, watching as the group was set upon by numerous raider gangs, all coordinated and persuaded by Reese.
They visited Austin, where the tensions between the two super mutant factions was growing. Originally, Keats would always die. You could choose between Shale or Keats, but ultimately, he was always assassinated during a speech. But we decided that was boring. Scarlet (our protagonist of choice) saved Keat’s life, becoming bros for life in the process, and Shale was exiled from Austin alongside his goons.
They then travelled, finally, to The Corpse. Within the ruins of a sunken Corpus Christi, Reese’s lair waited in the harbour, and there a final battle ensued. Everything up until now, barring Keat’s survival, is canon. Now, let’s jump into the juicy OWB fanon.
Ultimately winning the fight, Scarlet took his GECK and hauled it across Texas, travelling a great distance to a remote location, far from large and established communities. She put the GECK down in what was to be its final resting place, and became its guardian and protector. Over the decade, its influence spread, creating a beautiful but deadly blood red canopy of mutant fauna, a place the natives of Texas refer to as Eden. Any and all who enter the twisted jungle without permission wind up dead, victim to the protagonist’s legendary assassination skills.
So, there’s your juicy jet high of lore. Now, how about we get onto the region as a whole in OWB’s 2275? Many nations in Texas and Oklahoma, such as Carbon, Los, Shale's Army, Unity of Austin, Lonestar, the Texan Brotherhood, and others are all based in Fallout lore. Since we’re here, let’s go over them all in some more detail.
Pecos: a collection of settler communities from Mexico, who primarily trade with the RRG and Las Granjas. Having struggled to maintain their independence over the last few decades, recent events have continued to destabilise their peaceful towns.
Los: The Church of the Lost has recovered since the fall of the Secret Vault and the death of their old leader Blake. These survivors from Necropolis hope to live out the remainder of their days seeking nirvana within the hallowed streets of Los.
Carthage: a civilised raider nation built over the ruins of Carthage, a town built atop a gigantic and largely untapped natural gas reserve. They use flame to do everything, from powering their cities to cooking their enemies alive.
Carbon: The town of Carbon has been destroyed and rebuilt many times. Recently the town is on an upswing - yet there are some that worry that the raiders that once destroyed their small town may come back again.
The Pursuant: a vicious hunting lodge of civilised raiders who hunt the greatest monsters the wasteland has to offer, from terrifying, legendary Deathclaws, Horrifying Mirelurk Queens, and the most exclusive game of all: man. Traders must constantly be aware, as they are always on the hunt.
Unity of Austin: led by Keats, the ever charismatic super mutant politician and every man, the Unity of Austin is a staunch ally of the Brotherhood, seeking to create a Wasteland in which mutants and humans live side by side through mutual cooperation.
Houston Rockets: the remnants of NASA and Houston’s entertainment industry made a deal. One side made money off of sports, and the other side used the profits to launch rockets into orbit.
The Patrolmen: a group of “protectors” who patrol the I-10 religiously, fighting off raiders and outside threats, while exploiting the communities who exist under their thumb.
Bayou Motors: a trader nation that specialises in, produces, and sells boats and shipping equipment to most of the Gulf.
Gatormaws: a group of violent tribal communities who’ve made the Bayou their home, and make use of their extensive expertise to raid traders who sail along the Red River.
Desperados: a ghoul cartel who split off the Sinaloa after a brutal coup, they’ve taken up shop in Shreveport, demanding “protection fees” from passing traders, lest they die to “local raiders.”
Assassin City Rollergirls: a raider gang steeped in roller derby culture, they skate around the urban sprawl in atomic skates, cleaving heads and splitting Brotherhood power armour like tin cans.
Tubeheads: a cult of raiders and engineers led by the charismatic Mr. Entertainment, the Wasteland’s only late-night variety show host. Cooking segments, raider gladiatorial combat, special guest interviews, all from the pleasure of your own home: courtesy of the Tubehead’s mandatory TV and satellite installation package.
The Last Lodge: a nation of peaceful settlers, draped in masonic imagery, with an outward focus and an emphasis on community.
Scrappers Compact: an alliance of territorial but loyal junkyard settlers, who make a living out of scavenging and selling valuable scrap to the outside world.
Shale’s Army: a warband of first generation super mutants exclusively, led by Shale, one of Attis’s fiercest commanders. Their hatred for all non super mutants is readily apparent, and they make a living out of claiming the lives of their neighbours, ultimately aiming to rebuild Unity from the ground up.
The Chained Choir: a nation of former inmates; ghouls who were subjected to testing by the US army, for research into the potential psionic implementations of FEV.
The Last Patrol: a regiment of national guard who were directly exposed to a nuclear blast, and now patrol the region around their compound, fiercely protecting the rights and liberties of the communities under their charge.
The Texan Arms Association: a coalition of arms barons and factories in the northern Rio Grande who never fully assimilated. Motivated by dreams of liberty and greed, they sell weapons to anyone, and have continued to destabilise the RRG’s politics since its inception. 3.0 will see the TAA exist on game start, and their association’s bid for independence may be welcomed by some of its neighbours who see it little more than prey.
Painted Rock: a group of noble tribal warriors, unwavering combatants who test their young among jagged rocks, and prove their worth against the Wasteland’s toughest foes.
Cypher Warband: a clan of luddites who hold a deep hatred for the old world, and in particular, the Brotherhood of Steel’s core doctrines. They’ve been fierce opponents for decades, but during the events of the cancelled Brotherhood of Steel 2, they disowned their most extreme member—Reese—who left in an attempt to destroy their archenemy once and for all.
Lubbock: a settler community of ghouls and humans, attempting to work together despite their differences. Supported by the Lubbock Expedition, a military effort by Lone Star to secure the highways across Lubbock’s territory, securing their border and reaping the economic benefits of the partnership.
The Ironmongers: a group of mutants who’ve taken over former TAA factories, regularly plundering their gunsmith neighbours. Unlike many other mutants, they construct massive vehicles of brutal machinery, backed up by giant guns and the strength of iron. They’re feared by many, and their iconic “Battlewagons” bring terror and destruction in their wake.
Eden: lead by Scarlet, a protagonist from the protagonist of the cancelled game "Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel 2", who dragged Reese’s GECK from The Corpse to a remote location, to contain the spread of its taint from the outside world, and all who would covet its ruinous strength.
Lone Star: the largest trade hub in Texas, all traders pass along its roads and through the gates of its capital city. Its emphasis on sustainable partnerships, justice, and profit have made it a veritable Wasteland boomtown.
Texan Brotherhood: a brotherhood outfit who’s roots stemmed from a desire to crush Attis once and for all, in 2275 the Brotherhood look entirely different to their counterparts out west. Civilised, peaceful, just: they seek moral victories over material, a direction some among their ranks find fault with.
The First People: the combined nations of the Choctaw, Cherokee, and Chickasaw-Muscogee Coalition have banded together in an alliance, protecting one-another from outside threats and developing their communities in a Wasteland sorely lacking hope. Many of them emerged from vaults, and they rebuilt the casinos, infrastructure, and social venues that made their little corner of Oklahoma the darling it was. In 2275, beyond New Vegas, the Big Spend is the premiere destination for tourists, traders, and soldiers looking to experience the best service in the Wasteland. Live music, tasty food, refreshing drinks, and refurbished hotels continue to entice visitors year after year.
In the words of everyone’s favourite doctor, “Well, that’s all she wrote.” Our dev diary has wrapped up, and boy, what a diary it was! What did you think? Are you excited for what you’ve seen of 3.0? Got any thoughts, comments, or suggestions to share? Let us know in the comments below, or on our Discord!
Mapping is a labour of love, and I love doing it. Take care during this difficult time for all of us, and stay safe and healthy!
submitted by Zapdude277 to OldWorldBlues [link] [comments]

Non-Nevada casino minimums (COVID edition)

It was getting really tedious to edit a post with over 100 casinos in it. So I'm breaking it up to Nevada casinos and non-Nevada casinos.
Non/NV Casino Day Min Night Min Weekend Day Weekend Night Dividers Comments
Wind Creek (Wetumpka, AL) 15 25 Unknown Unknown 4 to a table Updated 7/31
Sycuan (San Diego, CA) 10 10 Unknown Unknown Masks required
Barona (So Cal) 10 15 10 10-15 2 tables 2 per side, dealers managing bets for players. Updated 8/21 ($10 at times)
Harrahs (So Cal) 15-25 15-25 15-50 15-50 No Updated 7/31
Viejas (So Cal) N/A N/A Unknown Unknown No live tables
Foxwoods (CT) 10 10 Unknown Unknown 4 per side. Updated 8/22
Mohegan (CT) 15-25 25 Unknown Unknown 2 were 10, 2
Harrington (DE) 15 15-25 25 25 Updated 8/22
Rivers (Chicago, IL) 15 15
Blue Chip (Michigan City, IN) 5 10 Unknown Unknown 5 minimum prop bets, 5 min ATS bet.
Caesars Southern IN 10 15 15 25 Updated 8/5
French Lick Resort (French Lick, IN) 15 15 25 25 Tables open at 11am and close at 3AM. Updated 8/5
Harrah's Hooiser Park (Anderson, IN) 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Indiana Grand (IN) 10 15 Unknown Unknown No
Hollywood casino Lawrenceburg (IN) 10-15 10 -15 Unknown Crapless Updated 9/4
Belle (Baton Rogue, LA) 5 10 Unknown Unknown one half sized table sometimes they open the big one. $5 small table and $10 big late at night
Hollywood (Baton Rogue, LA) 5 10 Unknown 15 Updated 7/24
L’auberge (Baton Rogue,LA) 15 15 Unknown Unknown No
L’auberge (Lake Charles,LA) 15 15 Unknown Unknown No 1 bubble craps $5 min
El Dorado (Shreveport, LA) 10 10 10 10 Updated 8/17
Horseshoe (Shreveport, LA) 15 15 15 15 Updated 8/17
Margaritaville (Shreveport, LA) 15 15 15 15 Updated 8/17
Ocean Downs (MD) 10 15 Unknown Unknown
Maryland Live (MD) 25 50 50 100 Yes 5 tables, 4 per side. Electronic craps 15 min Updated 9/6
MGM @ National Harbor 50-100 Unknown Unknown Yes 4 craps tables 2 were $50 and 2 were $100 mins. Not bubble craps or low roller options.
Firekeepers (Battle Creek, MI) 10 15+ Unknown Unknown No dividers, only distancing 1-2 tables depending on demand, did see it at $15 during the day $25 on Fri/Sat night. Masks required, no smoking. $3 Bubble Craps.
Four Winds Casino (New Buffalo, MI) 15 15 Unknown Unknown Digital craps table 5$ min Tuesday and Sunday night. Did not check bubble craps
Gun Lake (Wayland, MI) 10 15 Unknown Unknown No Temp check, masks, usually the crapless table is open
MGM Grand Detroit (Detroit, MI) 15 25 unknown unknown Yes
Turtle Creek (Traverse City, MI) 5 Unknown Unknown Unknowned 2 tables, temp check, masks
Soaring Eagle (Mt Pleasant, MI) 10 15 Unknown Unknown Yes 5 players per side with glass. Tough to hear dealer.
Hollywood Casino, Maryland Heights (St Louis) MO 15 15 Unknown Unknown 1 regular table & 1 no craps. 4 per side. No outside drinks.
River City (St. Louis, MS) 20 20 Unknown Unknown Unknown 4 players per side. $20 min. You have to have at least a $20 bet for every throw to "hold your spot"
Beau Rivage (Biloxi, MS) 25 25 Unknown Unknown unknown 3 tables
Boomtown (Biloxi, MS) 10 10 Unknown Unknown Unknown 1 table
Hard Rock (Biloxi, MS) 25 25 25 25 Updated 9/4
IP (Biloxi, MS) 25 25 Unknown Unknown
Scarlett Pearl (Biloxi, MS) 15 25 Unknown Unknown No Masks required, temp check
The Palace Biloxi, MS) 10 15 Unknown Unknown
Treasure Bay (Biloxi, MS) 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Harrah’s Cherokee & Murphy 15 15 Unknown Unknown No
Harrahs River Valley (Murphy, NC) 25 25 Unknown Unknown
Ballys (AC, NJ) 10 15 10 10-25 Updated 9/13
Caesars (AC, NJ) 15 15 Unknown 15-25 Updated 7/29
Harrahs (AC, NJ) 15 15 Unknown Unknown
Hard Rock (AC, NJ 15 25 Unknown Unknown 2 tables - Updated 7-29
Resorts (AC, NJ) 15 25 Unknown 15 Yes 1 table - Updated 7-29
Ocean (AC, NJ) 10 15 10 15-25 Yes 4 per side
Buffalo Creek (NY) 15 25 Unknown Unknown
Seneca Niagra (NY) 10 15 15 25 No 2 tables Updated 8/24
Jack/Harrah's (Cincinnati, OH) 25 25 25 25 3 tables, $25 open to close
Cocktaw (Durant, OK) 10 10 Updated 8/22
Hollywood (Columbus, OH) 10-15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 2 tables, masks required
Hollywood (Grantville, PA) 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown 2 tables, masks required
Harrah's Philly (PA) Unknown Unknown 15 25 Updated 8/10
Meadows (PA) 10 10 Unknown Unknown 2-3 tables.
Mohegan Sun (PA) Unknown Unknown 25-50 Unknown
Seneca Allegheny (PA) 5 5 Unknown Unknown Updateded 9/4
Windcreek (PA) 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Mount airy (PA) 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Valley Forge (PA) 10 25 Unknown Updated 9/12
Parx (Bensalem, PA) 15 25 15 15 Yes 6 per table. Updated 8/22
Southland Casino Racing (West Memphis, TN) N/A N/A Unknown Unknown Yes 4 tables all closed. Other pit games open with plexiglas dividers. Bubble craps $5 minimum.
Mardi Gras (Nitro, WV) 15 Usually open on weekends - Updated 7/28
Last update 9/13
Part 1. It's getting buried so I figured we would make a new one.
Part 2
Part 3
submitted by necrochaos to Craps [link] [comments]

Report your table minimums here (COVID Edition) part 3

Part 3 in the COVID series.
To try and make this list more helpful, I have added Weekend Day and Weekend Night, as those can be vastly different than during the week.
I'm trying to monitor Twitter and the Vegas Message Board to get some additional information.
Keep sharing all that wonderful goodness.
I'd like to update the wiki to talk about what sidebets casinos have, so if you know that info, I can add it to the table comments.
Vegas Strip Casino Day Min Night Min Weekend Day Weekend Night Dividers Comments
Aria 10 10 Unknown Unknown No Updated 7/26
Ballys 10 15 10 Unknown 3 tables Updated 8/8
Bellagio 10 25 Unknown Unknown Yes, all tables
Caesars 15 25 Unknown Unknown No
Cosmo 15-25 50-100 Unknown Unknown
Encore 10 10 10 10 Yes, on some tables Updated 8/12
Excalibur 10-15 15 10 15 Updated 8/12
Flamingo 15 15-25 Unknown 25 Updated 8/8
Harrah's 15 25 25 25 No
Linq 15 15 Unknown 25 No Updated 8/8
Luxor 10 10 15 15n Updated 8/12
Mandalay Bay 15 Unknown Unknown Unknown
MGM Grand 10 25 Unknown Unknown Yes
NY/NY 10 15-25 15 Unknown Yes Updated 8/8
Osheas Unknown 15 Unknown Unknown
Paris 15 15 Unknown Unknown No Updated 8/8
Sahara 5 10 10 10 Updated 8/15
Strat Day 10 Unknown 10 25 No
Treasure Island 5 15 Unknown Unknown
Venetian 10-15 25 Unknown Unknown No
Wynn 10 10 10 10 Yes, on some tables Updated 8/12
Downtown Casino Day Min Night Min Weekend Day Weekend Night Dividers Comments
Binions 5 10 Unknown Unknown Binions had $5 table several times (opens at noon) Updated 8/17
California 10 10 Unknown Unknown Tables open at 11AM Updated 8/10
The D 10 15 Unknown Unknown No glass
Downtown Grand 10 10 Unknown Unknown Table opens at noon. Updated 8/10.
El Cortez 10 10 10 10 Yes, some tables 2 tables Updated 8/15
Four Queens 10 10 10 10 No Updated 8/15
Fremont 10 10 10 Unknown Updated 8/10.
Golden Gate 10 15 Unknown Unknown Updated 8/18
Golden Nugget 10-15 10 Unknown Unknown $15 with one table open on 8/18
Plaza 10 10 Unknown Unknown Updated 7/30
Sams Town 15 15 Unknown Unknown 1 table
Offstrip Casino Day Min Night Min Weekend Day Weekend Night Dividers Comments
Aliente 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Boulder Station 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Cannery 5 5 Unknown Unknown up to 2 tables - now allowing 4 per side
Ellis Island 5 5 5 5 1 table - Updated 8/17 - I just called the pit at Ellis. Craps table opens up at 10am and its 5 dollars 90% of the time
Gold Coast 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Green Valley Ranch 10 10 Unknown Unknown 2 tables open
The Orleans 10 25 Unknown Unknown up to 4 tables, I was asked to wear a mask
Palace Station 10 10 Unknown Unknown Unknown
Palms N/A N/A Unknown Unknown No open date announced
Red Rock 10 15 15 Unknown Updated 8/14
South Point 5 5 5 10 No Updated 8/15
Strat 5 10 Unknown Unknown
Sunset Station 5 5 Unknown Unknown
Other NV Casinos Day Min Night Min Weekend Day Weekend Night Dividers Comments
Edgewater (Laughlin) 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Harrahs (Laughlin) 10 15 Unknown Unknown no
Atlantis (Reno) 5/10 5/10 Unknown Unknown 3 tables on weekends
Cal Neva (Reno) 5 5 Unknown Unknown
Circus Circus (Reno) Closed Closed Unknown Unknown Closed table game pit
Eldorado (Reno) 5 10 Unknown Unknown
Grand Sierra (Reno) 15 15-25 Unknown Unknown
Peppermill (Reno) 5 5 10 10 3 craps tables
Silver Legacy (Reno) 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Hard Rock (Tahoe) 5 5 Unknown Unknown
Harrahs (Tahoe) 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Montbleu (Tahoe) 10 15 Unknown Unknown
Nugget (Wendover) 5 5 5 5 Updated 7/31
Peppermill (Wendover) 5 5 10 10 Updated 7/31
Rainbow (Wendover) 5 5 10 10 Updated 7/31
Non/NV Casino Day Min Night Min Weekend Day Weekend Night Dividers Comments
Wind Creek (Wetumpka, AL) 15 25 Unknown Unknown 4 to a table Updated 7/31
Sycuan (San Diego, CA) 10 10 Unknown Unknown Masks required
Barona (So Cal) 10 15 10 10-15 2 tables 2 per side, dealers managing bets for players. Updated 8/21 ($10 at times)
Harrahs (So Cal) 15-25 15-25 15-50 15-50 No Updated 7/31
Viejas (So Cal) N/A N/A Unknown Unknown No live tables
Foxwoods (CT) 15 25 Unknown Unknown
Mohegan (CT) 15-25 25 Unknown Unknown 2 were 10, 2
Harrington (DE) 15 15-25 Unknown Unknown Must wear mask and face shield
Rivers (Chicago, IL) 15 15
Blue Chip (Michigan City, IN) 5 10 Unknown Unknown 5 minimum prop bets, 5 min ATS bet.
Caesars Southern IN 10 15 15 25 Updated 8/5
French Lick Resort (French Lick, IN) 15 15 25 25 Tables open at 11am and close at 3AM. Updated 8/5
Harrah's Hooiser Park (Anderson, IN) 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Indiana Grand (IN) 10 15 Unknown Unknown No
Belle (Baton Rogue, LA) 5 10 Unknown Unknown one half sized table sometimes they open the big one. $5 small table and $10 big late at night
Hollywood (Baton Rogue, LA) 5 10 Unknown 15 Updated 7/24
L’auberge (Baton Rogue,LA) 15 15 Unknown Unknown No
L’auberge (Lake Charles,LA) 15 15 Unknown Unknown No 1 bubble craps $5 min
El Dorado (Shreveport, LA) 10 10 10 10 Updated 8/17
Horseshoe (Shreveport, LA) 15 15 15 15 Updated 8/17
Margaritaville (Shreveport, LA) 15 15 15 15 Updated 8/17
Ocean Downs (MD) 10 15 Unknown Unknown
Maryland Live (MD) 25 50 50 Unknown Yes 5 tables, 4 per side. Electronic craps 15 min
MGM @ National Harbor 50-100 Unknown Unknown Yes 4 craps tables 2 were $50 and 2 were $100 mins. Not bubble craps or low roller options.
Firekeepers (Battle Creek, MI) 10 15+ Unknown Unknown No dividers, only distancing 1-2 tables depending on demand, did see it at $15 during the day $25 on Fri/Sat night. Masks required, no smoking. $3 Bubble Craps.
Four Winds Casino 15 15 Unknown Unknown Digital craps table 5$ min Tuesday and Sunday night. Did not check bubble craps
Gun Lake (Wayland, MI) 10 15 Unknown Unknown No Temp check, masks, usually the crapless table is open
Turtle Creek (Traverse City, MI) 5 Unknown Unknown Unknowned 2 tables, temp check, masks
Soaring Eagle (Mt Pleasant, MI) 10 15 Unknown Unknown Yes 5 players per side with glass. Tough to hear dealer.
Hollywood Casino, Maryland Heights (St Louis) MO 15 15 Unknown Unknown 1 regular table & 1 no craps. 4 per side. No outside drinks.
River City (St. Louis, MS) 20 20 Unknown Unknown Unknown 4 players per side. $20 min. You have to have at least a $20 bet for every throw to "hold your spot"
Beau Rivage (Biloxi, MS) 25 25 Unknown Unknown unknown 3 tables
Boomtown (Biloxi, MS) 10 10 Unknown Unknown Unknown 1 table
IP (Biloxi, MS) 25 25 Unknown Unknown
Scarlett Pearl (Biloxi, MS) 15 25 Unknown Unknown No Masks required, temp check
The Palace Biloxi, MS) 10 15 Unknown Unknown
Treasure Bay (Biloxi, MS) 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Harrah’s Cherokee & Murphy 15 15 Unknown Unknown No
Harrahs River Valley (Murphy, NC) 25 25 Unknown Unknown
Ballys (AC, NJ) 15 15 Unknown 10 Updated 7/29
Caesars (AC, NJ) 15 15 Unknown 15-25 Updated 7/29
Harrahs (AC, NJ) 15 15 Unknown Unknown
Hard Rock (AC, NJ 15 25 Unknown Unknown 2 tables - Updated 7-29
Resorts (AC, NJ) 15 25 Unknown 15 Yes 1 table - Updated 7-29
Ocean (AC, NJ) 10 15 15 25 Yes 4-6 tables
Buffalo Creek (NY) 15 25 Unknown Unknown
Seneca Niagra (NY) 10 15 Unknown Unknown 1 table, can go up to $25
Jack/Harrah's (Cincinnati, OH) 25 25 25 25 3 tables, $25 open to close
Hollywood (Columbus, OH) 10-15 Unknown Unknown Unknown Unknown 2 tables, masks required
Hollywood (Grantville, PA) 15 25 Unknown Unknown Unknown 2 tables, masks required
Harrah's Philly (PA) Unknown Unknown 15 25 Updated 8/10
Meadows (PA) 10 10 Unknown Unknown 2-3 tables.
Mohegan Sun (PA) Unknown Unknown 25-50 Unknown
Windcreek (PA) 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Mount airy (PA) 10 10 Unknown Unknown
Valley Forge (PA) 10
Parx (Bensalem, PA) 15 25 Unknown Unknown 15 but maintaining 25
Southland Casino Racing (West Memphis, TN) N/A N/A Unknown Unknown Yes 4 tables all closed. Other pit games open with plexiglas dividers. Bubble craps $5 minimum.
Mardi Gras (Nitro, WV) 15 Usually open on weekends - Updated 7/28
*Last update 8/21
Part 1. It's getting buried so I figured we would make a new one. Part 2
Pulled additional info from here.
submitted by necrochaos to Craps [link] [comments]

Report your table minimums here (COVID Edition) part 2

The previous post is here. It's getting buried so I figured we would make a new one.
Keep reporting those minimums:
Vegas Strip Casino Day Min Night Min Dividers Comments
Aria 10 10 Yes
Ballys
Bellagio 10 25 Yes, all tables )May be lower on weekday nights, $15 has been seen) Poker tables open
Caesars 15 25 No Poker tables open
Casino Royale N/A N/A N/A Table Games not open
Cosmo 15/25 50-100
Encore 50 100 Yes, on some tables Reports of $10 tables during the day
Excalibur 10-15 15 10 crapless, 15 regular
Flamingo 10-15 15-25
Harrah's 15 25 No
Linq 10-15 10-15 No
Luxor 10 10
Mandalay Bay N/A N/A
MGM Grand 10 25 Yes, all tables
NY/NY 10 15-25 Yes, all tables
Osheas Unknown 15
Paris 10-15 15 No Opened 6/18 - Masks required at tables.
Planet Hollywood N/A N/A No open date announced
Rio N/A N/A No open date announced
Sahara 5 10
Strat Day 10 Unknown
Treasure Island 5 15
Venetian 10-15 25 No
Wynn 25-50 50-100 Yes, on some tables Updated 6/16
Downtown Casino Day Min Night Min Dividers Comments
Binions 5 10 Binions had $5 table several times with little to no social distancing
California 10 10 From 7/15 on Vegas Message Board
The D 10 15 No glass
Downtown Grand 10 10 Checks your temperature before letting you into casino, also NO valet, self-park only.
El Cortez 10 10 Yes, some tables 2 tables
Four Queens 10 10 No From 7/16 on Vegas Message Board, Four queens had a $5 table in the morning on saturday
Fremont 10 10 From 7/15 on Vegas Message Board
Golden Gate 10 15 From 7/14 on Vegas Message Board
Golden Nugget 10 10 From 7/15 on Vegas Message Board
Plaza 10 10
Sams Town 15 15 1 table
Offstrip Casino Day Min Night Min Dividers Comments
Aliente 10 10
Boulder Station 10 10
Cannery 5 5 up to 2 tables - now allowing 4 per side
Ellis Island 5 5 1 table
Gold Coast 10 10
Green Valley Ranch 10 10 2 tables open
The Orleans 10 25 up to 4 tables, I was asked to wear a mask
Palace Station 10 10 Unknown
Palms N/A N/A No open date announced
Red Rock 10 15
South Point 5 5 2-3x tables w/ only one $5 buy in
Strat 5 10
Sunset Station 5 5
Other NV Casinos Day Min Night Min Dividers Comments
Edgewater (Laughlin) 10 10
Harrahs (Laughlin) 10 15 no
Atlantis (Reno) 5/10 5/10 3 tables on weekends
Cal Neva (Reno) 5 5
Circus Circus (Reno) Closed Closed Closed table game pit
Eldorado (Reno) 5 10
Grand Sierra (Reno) 15 15-25
Peppermill (Reno) 10 10 3 craps tables
Silver Legacy (Reno) 10 10
Hard Rock (Tahoe) 5 5
Harrahs (Tahoe) 10 10
Montbleu (Tahoe) 10 15
Non/NV Casino Day Min Night Min Dividers Comments
Foxwoods (CT) 15 25
Mohegan (CT) 10-50 10-50 2 were 10, 2 $15, 1 $25, 1 $50. Plus a high rollers table
Harrington (DE) 15 15-25 Must wear mask and face shield
Blue Chip (Michigan City, IN) 5 10 5 minimum prop bets, 5 min ATS bet.
Harrah's Hooiser Park (Anderson, IN) 10 10
Indiana Grand (IN) 10 15 No
Belle (Baton Rogue, LA) 5 10 one half sized table sometimes they open the big one. $5 small table and $10 big late at night
Hollywood (Baton Rogue, LA) 5 10 one half sized table sometimes they open the big one. $5 small table and $10 big late at night
L’auberge (Baton Rogue,LA) 15 15 No
L’auberge (Lake Charles,LA) 15 15 No 1 bubble craps $5 min
Harrahs (Shreveport, LA) 15 25
Margaritaville (Shreveport, LA) 25 25
Ocean Downs (MD) 10 15
Maryland Live (MD) 25 50 Yes 5 tables, 4 per side. Electronic craps 15 min
MGM @ National Harbor 50-100 Yes 4 craps tables 2 were $50 and 2 were $100 mins. Not bubble craps or low roller options.
Firekeepers (Battle Creek, MI) 10 15+ No dividers, only distancing 1-2 tables depending on demand, did see it at $15 during the day $25 on Fri/Sat night. Masks required, no smoking. $3 Bubble Craps.
Four Winds Casino 15 15 Digital craps table 5$ min Tuesday and Sunday night. Did not check bubble craps
Gun Lake (Wayland, MI) 10 15 No Temp check, masks, usually the crapless table is open
Turtle Creek (Traverse City, MI) 5
Soaring Eagle (Mt Pleasant, MI) 10 15 Yes 5 players per side with glass. Tough to hear dealer.
Hollywood Casino, Maryland Heights (St Louis) MO 15 15 1 regular table & 1 no craps. 4 per side. No outside drinks.
River City (St. Louis, MS) 20 20 Unknown 4 players per side. $20 min. You have to have at least a $20 bet for every throw to "hold your spot"
Beau Rivage (Biloxi, MS) 25 25 unknown 3 tables
Boomtown (Biloxi, MS) 10 10 Unknown 1 table
IP (Biloxi, MS) 25 25
Scarlett Pearl (Biloxi, MS) 15 25 No Masks required, temp check
The Palace Biloxi, MS) 10 15
Treasure Bay (Biloxi, MS) 10 10
Harrah’s Cherokee & Murphy 15 15 No
Harrahs River Valley (Murphy, NC) 25 25
Harrahs (AC, NJ) 15 15
Hard Rock (AC, NJ 25 25 Yes 2 tables
Resorts (AC, NJ) 15 25 Yes 1 table
Ocean (AC, NJ) 15 25 Yes 4-6 tables
Buffalo Creek (NY) 15 25
Seneca Niagra (NY) 10 15 1 table, can go up to $25
Hollywood (Columbus, OH) 10-15 Unknown Unknown 2 tables, masks required
Hollywood (Grantville, PA) 15 25 Unknown 2 tables, masks required
Meadows (PA) 10 10 2-3 tables.
Windcreek (PA) 10 10
Mount airy (PA) 10 10
Parx (Bensalem, PA) 15 25 15 but maintaining 25
Sycuan (San Diego, CA) 10 10 Masks required
Barona (So Cal) 5 5 3 tables, dealers managing bets for players.
Harrahs (So Cal) 15-25 15-25 Bubble craps $5 min, Interblock bubble $3 min, 1 electronic table $5 min
Viejas (So Cal) N/A 15 1 table
Southland Casino Racing (West Memphis, TN) N/A N/A Yes 4 tables all closed. Other pit games open with plexiglas dividers. Bubble craps $5 minimum.
Last update 7/21
Pulled additional info from here.
submitted by necrochaos to Craps [link] [comments]

Is there a directory for physical table roulette casinos?

I am almost stuck halfway between Cherokee in North Carolina, and Hard Rock Seminole in Tampa. I was disappointed to find out from the dealer at my table today that Hard Rock doesn't have roulette tables... only e-roulette. I'd rather not play e-roulette because I don't trust computer programs being truly random. Is there like a list or directory of casinos in the US that have actual roulette tables on them? I've been to 2 casinos in Atlantic City that had them (can't remember the names). I know Harrah's in New Orleans has a few actual tables. Asking so I can plan a weekend in advanced on where to fly to. Roulette is the only game in a casino I actually enjoy playing. Card games are way too unpredictable for me, where I feel like I have more control in roulette despite me being at the mercy of the ball. Also: Been on carnival cruise and spent the entire 3 nights in the casino at the roulette table never got off the boat lol.
submitted by JeffTennis to roulette [link] [comments]

Current state of affairs in Oklahoma gaming dispute roundup: Casinos are open for business

For those of you who haven't been following this bit of epic stupidity from governomoron Kevin Stitt, a while ago Stitt decided that the wording of gaming compact between Oklahoma and the tribes that operate casinos means that he can force the tribes to renegotiate if they want to keep operating beyond January 1st, 2020.
Three nations, the Cherokee, Chickasaw and Choctaw, filed suit to get a ruling clarifying the meaning of the language of the compact: https://www.cherokeephoenix.org/Article/Index/113934
Citing the uncertainty cast by Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt over tribal gaming operations, the Cherokee, Chickasaw and Choctaw nations filed a federal lawsuit on Dec. 31 seeking a judicial declaration that the gaming compact with the state renewed on Jan. 1.
The nations provided a copy of the complaint to Stitt – named in his official capacity – along with a letter explaining reasons for the filing. Counsel for the nations, former U.S. Circuit Judge Robert Henry, provided a companion letter and copy of the complaint to Oklahoma Attorney General Mike Hunter. The nations’ lawsuit asks the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Oklahoma to declare the legal effect of the compact’s Part 15.B., which states: “This Compact shall have a term which will expire on January 1, 2020, and at that time, if organization licensees or others are authorized to conduct electronic gaming in any form other than pari-mutuel wagering on live horse racing pursuant to any governmental action of the state or court order following the effective date of this Compact, the Compact shall automatically renew for successive additional fifteen-year terms.”
Governor Stitt retained counsel for his, uh, legal campaign or whatever you want to call it: https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/stitt-hires-law-firm-with-a-history-of-taking-on-tribes/
Weeks before he said tribal casinos in Oklahoma would be operating illegally, Gov. Kevin Stitt hired a law firm with a reputation for aggressively representing states against tribal nations. “The legal experts at Perkins Coie have successfully represented other states in Indian law controversies, to include the State of New Mexico’s compact dispute in 2015,” Stitt said Friday when he announced the firm, which his office signed an agreement with on Dec. 18.
Two tribes sign an 8-month extension with the governor's office. Neither have casinos: https://www.news9.com/story/41508472/2-tribes-sign-extension-with-gov-stitt-after-3-tribes-file-federal-lawsuit-to-end-compact-renewal-dispute
Stitt's actions have completely failed to intimidate the tribes, and casinos are still operating across the state: https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/casinos-still-open-despite-gov-stitts-warning
As a matter of fact, Chuck Hoskin posted a video of himself ringing in the New Year at a Cherokee casino and sitting down at a slot machine! From his page:
Happy New Year. To ring in the New Year Cherokee Nation First Lady January Hoskin and visited Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Tulsa. The clock struck midnight, I kissed my beautiful wife and then we celebrated the renewal of the gaming compact! Members of my administration, as well as Cherokee Nation Deputy Principal Chief Bryan Warner visited other Cherokee casinos to celebrate the strength of our nation as we enter 2020. #HappyNewYear #HappyCompactRenewal #UnitedForOklahoma
Lastly, the original author of the gaming compact says Stitt is wrong and the compact auto-renews: https://ktul.com/news/local/gaming-compact-author-weighs-in-on-controversy
"It does indeed say this 15-year compact expires, but..." says former state Sen. Cal Hobson, that's not the end of the story, and he should know since he wrote the bill.
"It was the hardest bill I ever authored by far, nothing's close," he said. It was a legislative marathon, assembling a behemoth bill encompassing gaming, horse racing, and 39 tribes over a period of 24 months. "Anybody that's been through the hell of doing this for two years, nobody wanted to re-enter this discussion lightly, and that’s why these words are in the compact," he said. Words, he says, with the specific intent of keeping the compact alive, despite the Governor's assertion that it doesn't. "I’m here to tell you, no contract auto-renews in perpetuity," said Stitt. "So, it does automatically renew?" we asked Hobson. "Yes," he said. "Even if there’s no immediate agreement on what the rates should be?" we asked. "Yes, that’s correct," he said.
Ha ha! Happy New Year, Stitt!
submitted by NatWu to IndianCountry [link] [comments]

What's happening around town (Wed, Mar 4th - Tue, Mar 10th)

Tulsa's event list.

Wednesday, Mar 4th

Thursday, Mar 5th

  • 🎨 Advance Screening: Emma (Circle Cinema - Tulsa) Start Time: 7:00pm Join us at Circle Cinema on Thursday, March 5th at 7:00pm for an advance screening of "EMMA," based on Jane Austen's beloved romantic comedy. Tickets are on sale now. (Regular engagement of Emma at Circle Cinema begins Friday, March 6th - Thursday, March 12th.) About the film: In 1800s England, a well meaning but selfish young woman meddles in…
  • Tulsa Area Daylily Society - March Meeting (Tulsa Garden Center - Tulsa) Start Time: 6:30pm Our first meeting of the year will feature Dr. Todd Lasseigne, President & CEO of the Tulsa Botanic Garden. Our members will be bringing their favorite dishes to share, so join us at 6:30 for food and fellowship, and Dr. Lasseigne's presentation will start at 7.
  • Ben Neikirk (Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Tulsa - Catoosa) Start Time: 5:00pm
  • Bounce'n Beethovens (Owasso Library - Owasso) Start Time: 6:30pm Ages 0-5 and parents explore music through movement and instruments as they play with egg shakers, bells, rhythm sticks, drums and maracas in this fun, interactive program. Registration is required. Register online or call 918-549-7323. Please register for only one Bounce'n Beethovens session per month. Register here for Thursday, March 5,…
  • 😂 Brendan Eyre (Loony Bin - Tulsa) Thru Sat, Mar 7th
  • Build A Reader: Bilingual Baby Storytime (Martin Regional Library - Tulsa) Start Time: 11:00am Join Ms. Emily for stories, rhymes and songs in English and Spanish that help your baby or toddler develop important early literacy skills.
  • Build A Reader: Stay and Play (Nathan Hale Library - Tulsa) Start Time: 11:00am For babies, toddlers and preschoolers, playing is learning! Join us for games, toys and activities that foster critical early literacy skills.
  • Build A Reader Storytime: Family (Hardesty Library - Tulsa) Start Time: 6:30pm Bring the whole family for this 0-to-5 storytime! There’s something for everyone – simple songs and books for the little ones, more interactive stories and activities for your older children.
  • Build A Reader Storytime: Family (Nathan Hale Library - Tulsa) Start Time: 10:30am Bring the whole family for this 0-to-5 storytime! There’s something for everyone – simple songs and books for the little ones, more interactive stories and activities for your older children.
  • Cacti Soil Workshop by Tulsa Cacti and Succulent Society (Tulsa Garden Center - Tulsa) Start Time: 7:00pm RESCHEDULED FROM FEBRUARY 6. Join us as we learn about components of a good cactus and succulent soil mix! Participants will make their own soil mix with provided materials, and we will compare some top selling pre-bagged soil mixes as well. Let's get our hands dirty and have a great time! Click here to register:…
  • Celebrate Life (Cox Business Center - Tulsa) Start Time: 6:00pm LIFE Senior Services presents "Celebrate LIFE" and an evening with complimentary valet and cocktail reception, a gourmet dinner by Chef Devin Levine, CEC, Live and Silent Auctions, Mystery Boxes, Raffle, and musical entertainment by Ayngel and John. The evening's emcee is KJRH Chief Meteorologist Mike Collier. Tickets on sale now.
  • 🎓 D&D Character Creation Workshop Series: Clerics (Zarrow Regional Library - Tulsa) Start Time: 6:00pm Making player characters is big part of D&D (Dungeons & Dragons). This series guides you through creating the different types of classes in the Player's Handbook (5th ed.) and possibly beyond!
  • DJ Demko (Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Tulsa - Catoosa) Start Time: 5:00pm
  • DJ Vector (Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Tulsa - Catoosa) Start Time: 6:00pm
  • DJ Whit (Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Tulsa - Catoosa) Start Time: 7:00pm
  • 🎡 OK Electric Festival feat Inbal Segev + David Broome Band (Oklahoma Jazz Hall of Fame - Tulsa) Start Time: 8:00pm Living Arts of Tulsa's annual OK Electric will feature two sets of music for acoustic instruments together with electronic elements. 2020 guest artist is international cello soloist Inbal Segev. Segev will perform works for cello and electronics by composers Missy Mazzoli, Anna Clyne, Gity Razaz, and Dan Cooper, with a world premiere by Noam…
  • Exile (Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Tulsa - Catoosa) Start Time: 8:00pm
  • 🎨 First Thursday Art Show (Dennis R Neill Equality Center - Tulsa) Start Time: 6:00pm Shawna Chisholm is a two-spirit or Transgender Native American woman who has spent her life defending and fighting for the things she believes in; her family, her country, and spreading the ideals of her Native American heritage. She has spent over 30 years in military services and is currently a Warrant Officer in the United States Army, and…
  • Gaming in the Digital Lounge (Hardesty Library - Tulsa) Start Time: 6:00pm PS4, Wii, Nintendo Switch and Xbox One … which one will it be? Search through our gaming library in the Digital Lounge and play a few games on a first-come-first-serve basis. For ages 12-18.
  • Girls Night Out the Show (Hyatt Regency Hotel - Tulsa) Start Time: 8:00pm Girls Night Out, the #1 Ladies Night Event Is Coming to Thursday March 5th! Tickets available through Osage Casino! Get ready for the BEST GIRLS NIGHT EVER! Whether you’re celebrating a Birthday, Bachelorette Party, Divorce, Dirty Thirty or your Sheer Awesome Self; You will meet your party match with “GIRLS NIGHT OUT THE SHOW”! Purchase…
  • Hands-on Storytime (Tulsa Central Library - Zink Study Room - Tulsa) Start Time: 10:30am Busy hands, busy brain! Preschoolers learn through hands-on activities. We will explore, experiment and create. Be ready to get messy! For ages 3-5 and their caregivers.
  • Mystery Readers Book Club (Tulsa City County Library - Tulsa) Start Time: 2:00pm Join us for a discussion of our favorite mysteries! We do things a little differently – no special book to read each month. Simply discuss what you've been reading and get suggestions from others.
  • 🍴 Pearl Party-Women of the Year-Pinnacle Awards (Tulsa) Start Time: 5:00pm
  • Pop Up Shop with CM Customs (Mother Road Market - Tulsa) Start Time: 11:00am We’re going to be setting up in The Vault at Mother Road Market for just one day! We will be selling wood and leather earrings, farmhouse home decor, along with Tulsa and Oklahoma items. You’re going to love the selection of items we have. Here’s a little background on CM Customs. We’re a husband and wife ran home based business in…
  • 🎓 Spring Infusion Class (Inner Circle Vodka Bar - Tulsa) Start Time: 6:00pm Our seasonal Infusion class is here with some delicious spring themed infused liquors. This class only happens 4 times a year and it is a really fun way to learn to make your own infused cocktails at home. The class starts at 6 pm on Thursday, March 5th. Price includes a chance to taste the infusions, try cocktails based on the infusion, put…
  • Story Time (Gathering Place - Tulsa) Start Time: 4:00pm Fall in love with the magic found in children's books! Join us every Thursday at 4 p.m. and every Saturday at 9:30 a.m. in ONEOK Boathouse for Story Time from guest readers.
    Guest Reader Schedule Saturday, Jan. 25th - Gathering Place Education Team
    February Guest Readers: Saturday, February 1 - Gathering Place Education Team Thursday,…
  • TCC Music Department Concert (VanTrease PACE - Tulsa) Start Time: 7:00pm Tags: Concert Free Music Southeast Campus VanTrease PACE Share
  • 🎓 Teen Leadership Club: Teen Advisory Board (Nathan Hale Library - Tulsa) Start Time: 4:00pm Whether you're looking for volunteer hours for school, scouts, or just like to work on cool projects, eat and have fun, the Teen Leadership Club is the place to be! For ages 13-18.
  • 🎨 Teen Tech Month: Teen Photo Lab (Martin Regional Library - Tulsa) Start Time: 3:30pm Use some props, a computer and an iPhone with a photo app to create funny and interesting photos. It is the next step to learning animation. For ages 10-18.

Friday, Mar 6th

Saturday, Mar 7th

Sunday, Mar 8th

Monday, Mar 9th

I was unable to find any published events for Mar 9th.

Tuesday, Mar 10th

I was unable to find any published events for Mar 10th.

See Also

submitted by tulsanewsbot to tulsa [link] [comments]

Gravity's Rainbow and the secret integration.

I've read Gravity's Rainbow four times and thought I understood it pretty well. However, reading Beckett's Molloy/Malone Dies/The Unnameable trilogy and the Beckett biography Damned to Fame, and a lot of Jung, and going through some difficult times made me realise how much within me that I had previously repressed. The slow process of integrating everything I was in denial about has allowed me to find peace that I never thought I would attain, having been clinically depressed and suicidal for around ten years. I started reading GR again with this new understanding of myself and realised that I actually hadn't understood it properly at all. I thought I'd share a few things I realised in case they might be of interest to any of you. I will discuss the book from a psychoanalytical perspective and a political perspective here, but I do not wish to reduce what is such a brilliant novel in its own right to these elements alone; I feel like the literary perspective has been discussed far more than these aspects though, and strongly doubt I would be able to add anything new to that excellent body of existing work. Even though I have realised that the political and psychoanalytical aspects are examined and explored very overtly in GR, I think they are often underexamined because the readers themselves haven't come to terms with their own inner conflicts, and are therefore in denial about certain things in themselves, such as their own possible complicity (through inaction or otherwise) with the System - much like Pokler. Therefore I am only going to be discussing the book within the very narrow frameworks of psychoanalysis and politics, while acknowledging that this comprises only a fraction of what it really is.
The sheer density of GR can make it hard to tell what the hell is going on even just in terms of things like the plot. But maybe this isn't such a surprise, Pynchon's intelligence and education, how long he spent writing it, and and how much research he had to do in the process. It's only after doing a lot of the background reading that he refers to that things started to come together for me. With subjects such as Pavlov's theories of conditioning, statistics, physics, engineering, Pynchon reproduces key concepts within the text. For example:
Pavlov was fascinated with “ideas of the opposite.” Call it a cluster of cells, somewhere on the cortex of the brain. Helping to distinguish pleasure from pain, light from dark, dominance from submission... . But when, somehow—starve them, traumatize, shock, castrate them, send them over into one of the transmarginal phases, past borders of their waking selves, past “equivalent” and “paradoxical” phases —you weaken this idea of the opposite, and here all at once is the paranoid patient who would be master, yet now feels himself a slave... who would be loved, but suffers his world’s indifference, and, “I think,” Pavlov writing to Janet, “it is precisely the ultraparadoxical phase which is the base of the weakening of the idea of the opposite in our patients.” Our madmen, our paranoid, maniac, schizoid, morally imbecile—
However, for much of the history, particular that regarding intelligence agencies (whether that is WWII activity such as the O.S.S. or the S.O.E., or CIA activity in the 60s and 70s around the time that Pynchon was writing GR in a Californian beach house, very near where groups such as the Black Panthers were operating, targets of programs such as COINTELPRO and Operation CHAOS), the books had not even been written yet. I think the first few pages, with the carriage full of evacuees, can be interpreted as moving into the darkest parts of lost or repressed history, e.g.:
and it is poorer the deeper they go... ruinous secret cities of poor, places whose names he has never heard..
These names he has never heard could range from the Herero tribe whose genocide he discovered while writing V. ten years before, to Novi Pazar (with the Adenoid passage), to the all other hidden history in the book. I have also read people remarking on how in The Crying of Lot 49 it seems like Pynchon was somehow aware of MK-Ultra (which Dr Hilarius was involved with) before well the documents were leaked and the program confirmed. However, fortunately, many these history books have since been written. If anyone is interested, a great place to start is The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government, published in 2016, which follows Dulles from his time at the Wall Street law firm Sullivan and Cromwell to his time in the O.S.S. in Switzerland, working with Nazis in Operation Paperclip, to his directorship of the CIA through the 50s and 60s. Reading about this Cold War history, and also the writing of Huey Newton (who I strongly believe Enzian is in part based on), made a lot of GR far clearer. It is important to recognise that these histories of intelligence agencies contain irrefutable documented facts that the public at large is collectively in denial about - because they are too dark for them to acknowledge and face. For them to acknowledge these facts requires integrating that darkness into their conscious minds, before anything can be done about it on the political level. I think that, through the incorporation of all the world's darkness, from politics to history to sexual and paedophilic fantasies to etc..., this is the Secret Integration that Pynchon is trying to accomplish, and which concept he wrote a story about, published in Slow Learner. Reading this book causes the beginnings of this process, as all of the darkness is brought into one's mind by reading it.
Another crucial area for me was understanding a bit about Freud and Jung. Particularly Freud's tendency to project his own incredibly powerful repression onto his patients, because of his own compulsion to analyse and differentiate everything, much in the Western tradition, seen in, for example, his five stages of psychosexual development, oral, anal, phallic, latent and genital stages. Some people don't need to delve into the darkest aspects of their unconscious to find peace, but since Freud did, he felt the need to inflict this also on his patients - seen in the many cases where he would tell victims of childhood sexual abuse that it was due to their own subconscious desires to be raped, which could, obviously, do enormous damage to his patients. His compulsion to do this might have stemmed from, alongside his overanalytical compulsions, the truth that anything we are in denial of or repress causes inner conflicts that manifest in our daily lives, and the only way to get rid of them is to integrate them into the conscious mind. Jung's equivalent of this is his statement that “until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.” Jung's thinking on the unconscious, and particularly the notion of the collective unconscious - this idea that all the darkness in humanity is also within ourselves, and vice versa, much as in Daoism, another critical source for GR - is very useful to help understand the book.
An interesting thing to consider is that the old psychoanalytic approach, more directive/authoritarian (going back to Mesmer powerfully dominating his hypnotic subjects), where the analyst would attempt to integrate these repressions into the conscious mind of the patient by force, has fallen out of favour - it is now seen that the permissive style, in which the therapist tries to help the patient realise things themselves without use of force, is a much healthier approach for the average person (though there are still some cases where the directive style can be more effective). The former's effects can be seen in GR when, after many sessions with Freud, Greta's darkest parts of her unconscious mind rise up and she begins murdering children. Pynchon links Freud's repressions to trauma carried down by Jews from life under the Romans, and elsewhere, slavery under the Ancient Egyptians, which is fundamental to their religious texts (linked itself with attitudes and trauma in the black population about the more recent black slavery).
The trouble with Sigmund was the place he happened to be living in, a drafty, crenelated deformity overlooking a cold little lake in the Bavarian Alps. Parts of it must have dated back to the fall of Rome. That was where Sigmund brought her.
She had got the idea somewhere that she was part Jewish. Things in Germany by then, as everyone knows, were very bad. Margherita was terrified of being “found out.” She heard Gestapo in every puff of air that slipped in, among any of a thousand windways of dilapidation. Sigmund spent whole nights trying to talk it away. He was no better at it than Rollo. It was around this time that her symptoms began.
However psychogenic these pains, tics, hives and nauseas, her suffering was real. Acupuncturists came down by Zeppelin from Berlin, showing up in the middle of the night with little velvet cases full of gold needles. Viennese analysts, Indian holy men, Baptists from America trooped in and out of Sigmund’s castle, stage-hypnotists and Colombian curanderos slept on the rug in front of the fireplace. Nothing worked. Sigmund grew alarmed, and before long as ready as Margherita to hallucinate. Probably it was she who suggested Bad Karma. It had a reputation that summer for its mud, hot and greasy mud with traces of radium, jet black, softly bubbling. Ah. Anyone who’s been sick in that way can imagine her hope. That mud would cure anything. Where was anybody that summer before the War? Dreaming. The spas that summer, the summer Ensign Morituri came to Bad Karma, were crowded with sleepwalkers. Nothing for him to do at the Embassy. They suggested a holiday till September. He should have known something was up, but he only went on holiday to Bad Karma—spent the days drinking Pilsener Urquelle in the cafe by the lake in the Pavilion Park. He was a stranger, half the time drunk, silly beer-drunk, and he hardly spoke their language. But what he saw must have been going on all over Germany. A premeditated frenzy.
This is a similar process to what Slothrop goes through in the Abreaction Ward, when under sodium amytal ("truth serum") and the supervision of psychoanalysts, Slothrop explores the parts of his unconscious that he has repressed, including his feelings towards race and homosexuality.
PISCES: We want to talk some more about Boston today, Slothrop. You recall that we were talking last time about the Negroes, in Roxbury. Now we know it’s not all that comfortable for you, but do try, won’t you. Now—where are you, Slothrop? Can you see anything?
Slothrop: Well no, not see exactly...
By the presence of Red (Malcolm X) in the scene where Slothrop flees the black men at the jazz club trying to rape him down the toilet (which leads through a trip not only through Slothrop's own unconscious racism but also through the repressed histories, all the Preterite lost and forgotten.
Either he lets the harp go, his silver chances of song, or he has to follow. Follow? Red, the Negro shoeshine boy, waits by his dusty leather seat. The Negroes all over wasted Roxbury wait. Follow? “Cherokee” comes wailing up from the dance floor below, over the hi-hat, the string bass, the thousand sets of feet where moving rose lights suggest not pale Harvard boys and their dates, but a lotta dolled-up redskins. The song playing is one more lie about white crimes. But more musicians have floundered in the channel to “Cherokee” than have got through from end to end.
Here, among other things, if we consider Slothrop's mouth harp a (Rilke-referencing) metaphor, in part, for Pynchon's own tools of artistry, I feel like these floundering musicians can be seen as other writers who have not come to terms with the darkest parts of history, and thus their own unconscious. And the decision to delve into these things as an artist necessitates exposing one's own unconscious repressions, which causes you to be in a vulnerable position - particularly since They like to use these aspects of people to control them, as with Prentice and the drawing of the Scorpia Mossmoon lookalike he is given to activate the Kryptosam. In Pynchon's case, this means exposing his own racism and homophobia:
If Slothrop follows that harp down the toilet it’ll have to be headfirst, which is not so good, cause it leaves his ass up in the air helpless, and with Negroes around that’s just what a fella doesn’t want, his face down in some fetid unknown darkness and brown fingers, strong and sure, all at once undoing his belt, unbuttoning his fly, strong hands holding his legs apart—and he feels the cold Lysol air on his thighs as down come the boxer shorts too, now, with the colorful bass lures and trout flies on them. He struggles to work himself farther into the toilet hole as dimly, up through the smelly water, comes the sound of a whole dark gang of awful Negroes come yelling happily into the white men’s room, converging on poor wriggling Slothrop, jiving around the way they do singing, “Slip the talcum to me, Malcolm!” [*] And the voice that replies is who but that Red, the shoeshine boy who’s slicked up Slothrop’s black patents a dozen times down on his knees jes poppin’ dat rag to beat the band... now Red the very tall, skinny, extravagantly conked redhead Negro shoeshine boy who’s just been “Red” to all the Harvard fellas—“Say Red, any of those Sheiks in the drawer?” “How ’bout another luck-changin’ phone number there, Red?”—this Negro whose true name now halfway down the toilet comes at last to Slothrop’s hearing—as a thick finger with a gob of very slippery jelly or cream comes sliding down the crack now toward his asshole, chevroning the hairs along like topo lines up a river valley—the true name is Malcolm, and all the black cocks know him, Malcolm, have known him all along—Red Malcolm the Unthinkable Nihilist sez, “Good golly he sure is all asshole ain’t he?” Jeepers Slothrop, what a position for you to be in! Even though he has succeeded in getting far enough down now so that only his legs protrude and his buttocks heave and wallow just under the level of the water like pallid domes of ice. Water splashes, cold as the rain outside, up the walls of the white bowl. “Grab him ’fo’ he gits away!” “Yowzah!” Distant hands clutch after his calves and ankles, snap his garters and tug at the argyle sox Mom knitted for him to go to Harvard in, but these insulate so well, or he has progressed so far down the toilet by now, that he can hardly feel the hands at all...
GR can be seen even as a process of abreaction that Pynchon underwent. If the rumours that he used drugs through writing it are true, then that would mean exposing things in him unconscious even to himself while writing it. Worth at this point also to note Jung's criticisms of Freud's use of abreaction, and thus the possible dangers of doing this.
Though traumata of clearly aetiological significance were occasionally present, the majority of them appeared very improbable. Many traumata were so unimportant, even so normal, that they could be regarded at most as a pretext for the neurosis. But what especially aroused my criticism was the fact that not a few traumata were simply inventions of fantasy and had never happened at all.
However, as Daoism asserts, light and darkness is in everything. For the Pavlovian Pointsman, who views things in binary, this is impossible to accept - the idea that for between every extreme - like black and white - lies a spectrum, a continuous rainbow. As Western humans understand things through this differentiation and analysis, this continuity causes an inherent conflict. Pointsman, the pure cause-and-effect man, the "Antimexico" (since Mexico, the statistician who thinks all can be explained through independent variables and probability distributions, takes the opposite position), says this on Daoist thinking early on.
“Pierre Janet —sometimes the man talked like an Oriental mystic. He had no real grasp of the opposites. ‘The act of injuring and the act of being injured are joined in the behavior of the whole injury.’ Speaker and spoken-of, master and slave, virgin and seducer, each pair most conveniently coupled and inseparable—The last refuge of the incorrigibly lazy, Mexico, is just this sort of yang-yin rubbish.
But by the end of Beyond the Zero, he's having a breakdown, as his unconscious is trying to tell him the truth of the Daoist wisdom he was so quick to reject in his scientific arrogance.
“Talking to myself, here. Little—sort of—eccentricity, heh, heh.”
“Yang and Yin,” whispers the Voice, “Yang and Yin... .”
With all that out of the way, the plot of what GR is actually about can perhaps begin to be discussed. I'm going to make a lot of assumptions here that many of the male characters are based on Pynchon himself. You may disagree with this approach, which is very understandable, given my total lack of evidence. My justification for it is the following passages from Slothrop's trip down the toilet:
Here now is Crutchfield or Crouchfield, the westwardman. Not “archetypical” westwardman, but the only. Understand, there was only one. There was only one Indian who ever fought him. Only one fight, one victory, one loss. And only one president, and one assassin, and one election. True. One of each of everything. You had thought of solipsism, and imagined the structure to be populated—on your level—by only, terribly, one. No count on any other levels. But it proves to be not quite that lonely. Sparse, yes, but a good deal better than solitary. One of each of everything’s not so bad. Half an Ark’s better than none.
Then slightly later on:
Isn’t there supposed to be only one of each?
A. Yes.
Q. Then one Indian girl...
A. One pure Indian. One mestiza. One criolla. [*] Then: one Yaqui. One Navaho. One Apache—
Q. Wait a minute, there was only one Indian to begin with. The one that Crutchfield killed.
A. Yes. Look on it as an optimization problem. The country can best support only one of each.
Q. Then what about all the others? Boston. London. The ones who live in cities. Are those people real, or what?
A. Some are real, and some aren’t.
Q. Well are the real ones necessary? or unnecessary?
A. It depends what you have in mind.
Q. Shit, I don’t have anything in mind.
A. We do.
However, given the extent to which Pynchon has managed to keep his life quiet, I'm aware that this assumption could be projection from me. I think might be by design of the book though:
“Pre cise-ly why,” leaps Rozsavolgyi, “we are now proposing, to give, Slothrop a com plete- ly dif-ferent sort, of test. We are now de sign- ing for him, a so called, ‘projec-tive’ test. The most famil-iar exam- ple of the type, is the Rorschach ink-blot. The ba- sic theory, is that when given an un struc-tured stimulus, some shape-less blob of exper-ience, the subject, will seek to impose, struc- ture on it. How, he goes a -bout struc-turing this blob, will reflect his needs, his hopes—will pro vide, us with clues, to his dreams, fan- tasies , the deepest re-gions of his mind.”
With those disclaimers out the way, here's what I think. I think Mexico is the "cheap nihilist" of Pynchon as a younger man, before he's delved into his own darkness, and still very much without belief in any sort of spiritualism:
“It makes no sense unless we also consider those who’ve passed over to the other side. We do transact with them, don’t we? Through specialists like Eventyr and their controls over there. But all together we form a single subculture, a psychical community, if you will.”
“I won’t,” Mexico says dryly, “but yes I suppose someone ought to be looking into it.”
Pointsman is his analytical side, obsessed with cause-and-effect, which eventually, he comes to realise, necessitates delving in the darkest regions of Slothrop's mind, but still obsessed with control, never losing control:
Sign and symptoms. Was Spectro right? Could Outside and Inside be part of the same field? If only in fairness... in fairness... Pointsman ought to be seeking the answer at the interface... oughtn’t he... on the cortex of Lieutenant Slothrop. The man will suffer—perhaps, in some clinical way, be destroyed—but how many others tonight are suffering in his name? For pity’s sake, every day in Whitehall they’re weighing and taking risks that make his, in this, seem almost trivial. Almost. There’s something here, too transparent and swift to get a hold on—Psi Section might speak of ectoplasms—but he knows that the time has never been better, and that the exact experimental subject is in his hands. He must seize now, or be doomed to the same stone hallways, whose termination he knows. But he must remain open—even to the possibility that the Psi people are right. “We may all be right,” he puts in his journal tonight, “so may be all we have speculated, and more. Whatever we may find, there can be no doubt that he is, physiologically, historically, a monster. We must never lose control. The thought of him lost in the world of men, after the war, fills me with a deep dread I cannot extinguish...”
Prentice, the employee, the seasoned intelligence veteran, strikes me as a maturation from Pynchon's earlier Mexico phase, into a more realistic and experienced person and, by the time he gets into the Counterforce, "activist". This could be projection but given that the book was written from around the mid-60s until 1973, and how much changed in that time, I feel like this could be based on his own experiences with political activism in California around that time. Might be totally wrong about that, but I just got that impression from reading the weird "interview" towards the end of the book with the Wall Street Journal between the interviewer and the "spokesman for the Counterforce". Who knows, read it again and see what you think.
And Slothrop, the experimental subject, is a model of Pynchon himself, rather than a differentiated portion of his own psyche which he turned into a character.
So, what I think is going on:
PISCES is using Slothrop (conditioned by Jamf) to exploit the racism of the Germans in psychological warfare with the whole Schwarzkommando thing. Pointsman is following his own pathological drive to analyse every facet of Slothrop's psyche. This includes Bloat taking photographs of Slothrop's map of girls linked to rockets, which we find out later might partly be falsified, which I interpret perhaps as Pynchon's recognition of his own attempt to impose his sexual interpretation system onto the world at large - interestingly something touched on early on in Bleeding Edge, though I can't find the passage right now, he quietly references the sexual hysterias of youth or something like that.
Prentice is an employee of the Firm, a greater They than either PISCES or Pointsman, using his ability to have other people's fantasies, notionally for Pointsman, but really for some even grander scheme. This is reflected in the discussion of the message which Prentice picks up from the rocket which he and Slothrop see at the beginning of the book. From the Kryptosam message with the Scorpia lookalike:
Slowly then, a revelation through the nacreous film of his seed, in Negro-brown, comes his message: put in a simple Nihilist transposition whose keywords he can almost guess. Most of it he does in his head. There is a time given, a place, a request for help. He burns the message, fallen on him from higher than Earth’s atmosphere, salvaged from Earth’s prime meridian, keeps the picture, hmm, and washes his hands. His prostate is aching. There is more to this than he can see. He has no recourse, no appeal: he has to go over there and bring the operative out again. The message is tantamount to an order from the highest levels.
This "highest orders" thing can be compared with Slothrop seeing the hand of God pointing down at him.
There is in his history, and likely, God help him, in his dossier, a peculiar sensitivity to what is revealed in the sky. (But a hardon?) On the old schist of a tombstone in the Congregational churchyard back home in Mingeborough, Massachusetts, [*] the hand of God emerges from a cloud, the edges of the figure here and there eroded by 200 years of seasons’ fire and ice chisels at work, and the inscription reading:
In Memory of Constant
Slothrop, who died March
ye 4th 1766, in ye 29th
year of his age.
Death is a debt to nature due,
Which I have paid, and so must you.
...
6:43:16 BDST—in the sky right now here is the same unfolding, just about to break through, his face deepening with its light, everything about to rush away and he to lose himself, just as his countryside has ever proclaimed... slender church steeples poised up and down all these autumn hillsides, white rockets about to fire, only seconds of countdown away, rose windows taking in Sunday light, elevating and washing the faces above the pulpits defining grace, swearing this is how it does happen—yes the great bright hand reaching out of the cloud...
I think Pynchon recognised that with his unique abilities, perception, intelligence, and even privilege, it was his duty to delve into these hidden histories and play his role in bringing about this integration of the darkest levels of the unconscious. But Beyond the Zero is all about systems, and as Pynchon is well aware all systems are inherently limited because there are irrational elements in the world. So after this we have the briefer section in the Casino Hermann Goering, where the role of chance - or fate, depending on your interpretation - is recognised, and systems are examined, particularly language systems, like the drinking game Prince. So after that, with the third part, In the Zone, I think he may have been using drugs and various other techniques to bring out unconscious things in himself, to get past these conscious systems. And then completed with the Tarot reading performed at the end, where it says "here are the cards, exactly as they came up" - I think it's very possible that he did an actual Tarot reading at this point. Maybe I'm wrong about this though, I don't want to make too many assumptions given the lack of information we really have on him. If that thing with the drugs is true, it would explain that infamous quote Jules Seigal attributed to him, "I was so fucked up while I was writing it... that now I go back over some of those sequences and I can't figure out what I could have meant." But it's unclear whether that quote is real or not.
How does this play into politics? I've written far too much already, but I'll just leave things with a couple more quotes and the observation that the final part, the Counterforce, contains some very valid criticisms of the countercultural movement as it manifested in the 60s through 70s. There's this critical passage when Enzian is motorbiking around the Zone, high on Pervitins, and realises that everything has come together for this. There's definitely a sense that Pynchon is acknowledging here the importance of his work, the fact it has done things that no other book had before. But in it too there's also, in it, the mocking of the temptation to view everything as an ordered conspiracy, and not acknowledge the non-rational and non-causal forces also at work, and mocking of his own self-seriousness.
There doesn’t exactly dawn, no but there breaks, as that light you’re afraid will break some night at too deep an hour to explain away—there floods on Enzian what seems to him an extraordinary understanding. This serpentine slagheap he is just about to ride into now, this ex-refinery, Jamf Ölfabriken Werke AG, is not a ruin at all. It is in perfect working order. Only waiting for the right connections to be set up, to be switched on... modified, precisely, deliberately by bombing that was never hostile, but part of a plan both sides—”sides?” —had always agreed on... yes and now what if we—all right, say we are supposed to be the Kabbalists out here, say that’s our real Destiny, to be the scholar-magicians of the Zone, with somewhere in it a Text, to be picked to pieces, annotated, explicated, and masturbated till it’s all squeezed limp of its last drop... well we assumed—natürlich!—that this holy Text had to be the Rocket, orururumo orunene the high, rising, dead, the blazing, the great one (“orunene” is already being modified by the Zone-Herero children to “omunene,” the eldest brother)... our Torah. What else? Its symmetries, its latencies, the cuteness of it enchanted and seduced us while the real Text persisted, somewhere else, in its darkness, our darkness... even this far from Südwest we are not to be spared the ancient tragedy of lost messages, a curse that will never leave us... . But, if I’m riding through it, the Real Text, right now, if this is it... or if I passed it today somewhere in the devastation of Hamburg, breathing the ashdust, missing it completely... if what the IG built on this site were not at all the final shape of it, but only an arrangement of fetishes, come-ons to call down special tools in the form of 8th AF bombers yes the “Allied” planes all would have been, ultimately, IG-built, by way of Director Krupp, through his English interlocks—the bombing was the exact industrial process of conversion, each release of energy placed exactly in space and time, each shock-wave plotted in advance to bring precisely tonight’s wreck into being thus decoding the Text, thus coding, recoding, redecoding the holy Text... If it is in working order, what is it meant to do? The engineers who built it as a refinery never knew there were any further steps to be taken. Their design was “finalized,” and they could forget it. It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted... secretly, it was being dictated instead by the needs of technology... by a conspiracy between human beings and techniques, by something that needed the energy-burst of war, crying, “Money be damned, the very life of [insert name of Nation] is at stake,” but meaning, most likely, dawn is nearly here, I need my night’s blood, my funding, funding, ahh more, more... . The real crises were crises of allocation and priority, not among firms—it was only staged to look that way—but among the different Technologies, Plastics, Electronics, Aircraft, and their needs which are understood only by the ruling elite...
Yes but Technology only responds (how often this argument has been iterated, dogged and humorless as a Gaussian reduction, among the younger Schwarzkommando especially), “All very well to talk about having a monster by the tail, but do you think we’d’ve had the Rocket if someone, some specific somebody with a name and a penis hadn’t wanted to chuck a ton of Amatol 300 miles and blow up a block full of civilians? Go ahead, capitalize the T on technology, deify it if it’ll make you feel less responsible—but it puts you in with the neutered, brother, in with the eunuchs keeping the harem of our stolen Earth for the numb and joyless hardens of human sultans, human elite with no right at all to be where they are—”
We have to look for power sources here, and distribution networks we were never taught, routes of power our teachers never imagined, or were encouraged to avoid... we have to find meters whose scales are unknown in the world, draw our own schematics, getting feedback, making connections, reducing the error, trying to learn the real function... zeroing in on what incalculable plot?
Up here, on the surface, coaltars, hydrogenation, synthesis were always phony, dummy functions to hide the real, the planetary mission yes perhaps centuries in the unrolling... this ruinous plant, waiting for its Kabbalists and new alchemists to discover the Key, teach the mysteries to others...
And if it isn’t exactly Jamf Ölfabriken Werke? what if it’s the Krupp works in Essen, what if it’s Blohm & Voss right here in Hamburg or another make-believe “ruin,” in another city? Another country? YAAAGGGGHHHHH!
Well, this is stimulant talk here, yes Enzian’s been stuffing down Nazi surplus Pervitins these days like popcorn at the movies, and by now the bulk of the refinery—named, incidentally, for the famous discoverer of Oneirine—is behind them, and Enzian is on into some other paranoid terror, talking, talking, though each man’s wind and motor cuts him off from conversation.
Some words of wisdom from the seasoned veteran Prentice:
“You’re a novice paranoid, Roger,” first time Prentice has ever used his Christian name and it touches Roger enough to check his tirade. “Of course a well-developed They-system is necessary—but it’s only half the story. For every They there ought to be a We. In our case there is. Creative paranoia means developing at least as thorough a We-system as a They-system—”
“Wait, wait, first where’s the Haig and Haig, be a gracious host, second what is a ‘They-system,’ I don’t pull Chebychev’s Theorem on you, do I?”
“I mean what They and Their hired psychiatrists call ‘delusional systems.’
Needless to say, ‘delusions’ are always officially defined. We don’t have to worry about questions of real or unreal. They only talk out of expediency. It’s the system that matters. How the data arrange themselves inside it. Some are consistent, others fall apart. Your idea that Pointsman sent Gloaming takes a wrong fork. Without any contrary set of delusions—delusions about ourselves, which I’m calling a We-system—the Gloaming idea might have been all right—”
“Delusions about ourselves?”
“Not real ones.”
“But officially defined.”
“Out of expediency, yes.”
“Well, you’re playing Their game, then.”
“Don’t let it bother you. You’ll find you can operate quite well. Seeing as we haven’t won yet, it isn’t really much of a problem.”
Roger is totally confused.
And finally, amid all this darkness, in a superlatively dark book, some hope at last, to hold onto, that makes life worth living, and why I think that despite what many say, GR is not a nihilistic work at all (Tchitcherine, the born nihilist, is almost a parody of this position). It starts with Slothrop's awakening to nature:
Trees, now—Slothrop’s intensely alert to trees, finally. When he comes in among trees he will spend time touching them, studying them, sitting very quietly near them and understanding that each tree is a creature, carrying on its individual life, aware of what’s happening around it, not just some hunk of wood to be cut down. Slothrop’s family actually made its money killing trees, amputating them from their roots, chopping them up, grinding them to pulp, bleaching that to paper and getting paid for this with more paper. “That’s really insane.” He shakes his head. “There’s insanity in my family.” He looks up. The trees are still. They know he’s there. They probably also know what he’s thinking. “I’m sorry,” he tells them. “I can’t do anything about those people, they’re all out of my reach. What can I do?” A medium-size pine nearby nods its top and suggests, “Next time you come across a logging operation out here, find one of their tractors that isn’t being guarded, and take its oil filter with you. That’s what you can do.”
And then, after Slothrop's harp makes its trip down the toilet, and through all of the darkness of the book until that point, where does it next show up? After he draws a rocket mandala, scrawls Rocketman was here on a wall, after the sequence with the Magician using black magic and a mandrake to multiply money, and a delegate from the Committee on Idiopathic Archetypes shows up to visit:
Crosses, swastikas, Zone-mandalas, how can they not speak to Slothrop? He’s sat in Säure Bummer’s kitchen, the air streaming with kif moires, reading soup recipes and finding in every bone and cabbage leaf paraphrases of himself... news flashes, names of wheelhorses that will pay him off enough for a certain getaway... . He used to pick and shovel at the spring roads of Berkshire, April afternoons he’s lost, “Chapter 81 work,” they called it, following the scraper that clears the winter’s crystal attack-from-within, its white necropolizing... picking up rusted beer cans, rubbers yellow with preterite seed, Kleenex wadded to brain shapes hiding preterite snot, preterite tears, newspapers, broken glass, pieces of automobile, days when in superstition and fright he could make it all fit, seeing clearly in each an entry in a record, a history: his own, his winter’s, his country’s... instructing him, dunce and drifter, in ways deeper than he can explain, have been faces of children out the train windows, two bars of dance music somewhere, in some other street at night, needles and branches of a pine tree shaken clear and luminous against night clouds, one circuit diagram out of hundreds in a smudged yellowing sheaf, laughter out of a cornfield in the early morning as he was walking to school, the idling of a motorcycle at one duskheavy hour of the summer... and now, in the Zone, later in the day he became a crossroad, after a heavy rain he doesn’t recall, Slothrop sees a very thick rainbow here, a stout rainbow cock driven down out of pubic clouds into Earth, green wet valleyed Earth, and his chest fills and he stands crying, not a thing in his head, just feeling natural...
And later:
Slothrop moseys down the trail to a mountain stream where he’s left his harp to soak all night, wedged between a couple of rocks in a quiet pool. ... Through the flowing water, the holes of the old Hohner Slothrop found are warped one by one, squares being bent like notes, a visual blues being played by the clear stream.
There are harpmen and dulcimer players in all the rivers, wherever water moves. Like that Rilke prophesied,
And though Earthliness forget you,
To the stilled Earth say: I flow.
To the rushing water speak: I am.
It is still possible, even this far out of it, to find and make audible the spirits of lost harpmen. Whacking the water out of his harmonica, reeds singing against his leg, picking up the single blues at bar 1 of this morning’s segment, Slothrop, just suckin’ on his harp, is closer to being a spiritual medium than he’s been yet, and he doesn’t even know it.
There's hope after all, and I think it's reflected in how much more positive all his later works have been. Thanks so much for reading, I hope it was at least vaguely interesting, not too much of an unstructured ramble. Also, this is such a great subreddit, really I love the community here. My very best to you all!
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